Minutes from 7th Nov 2010

indymedia minutes 7/12/2010

present: jess, john (missed start), donal, mark, nab
apologies: jen, protag, jimdog

matters arising:

Please can people check thir outstanding action points from last time (on crabgrass)

Bug Day – going ahead on Sunday 14th @ CommonPlace

6-month objectives – put on next agenda – include usability points

What mailing lists do we have in use? AP: jess to do list review


Thanks to Meg for report
suggestion: mockup of new page designs
suggestion: dev site? would be good – AP jess to make one

AP – documentation for users – nab, jess, mark


Donal asked where it was. Answer – on crabgrass.
suggestion: to link posters from website – AP jess

AP donal: business cards – stickers, and general purpose fliers – to look at stuff already on crabgrass

Possible Logo designs
Dispatch Flyers
northern meeting poster 2
northern meeting poster 1
Flier for Hebden Bridge
Outreach stuff to print for Hebden Bridge and beyond
Graphics for IMC Northern

dealing with infiltrators proposals:

Thanks to Donal for this draft lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-northern/2010-November/1101-i2.html
There were no significant changes required so the plan is that we agreed to adopt them – to put on crabgrass for a week for any minor edits first: AP Donal

We agreed that we should attempt to verify any particularly serious allegations published on our site. We should remind everyon of the importance of citing sources

process proposal:

donal and nab have been working on an enhanced explanation, with external input – will circulate shortly
to add, active concensus should be expressed rather than assumed from silence

network meeting:

discussion around a possible feature being discussed on the uk-legal list about gateway 303
preparation of a proposal to stop uk mir site from logging IP addresses
discussion about the damage to our brand caused by the malfeasances of mir admins who are accountable to nobody, with no peer oversight
perhaps a protocol for transparent use could be developed? – maybe later – we would like to see logging stopped until there is a responsible system of oversight.

birmingham have ‘blocked’ our proposal to have the dodgy docs pages removed – to be taken to network meeting

timetable – donal to facilitate on Saturday morning
maybe something about hyperactive arising out of hacklab?
legal briefing (talking about what the law is, not latest conspiraloon twaddle)?
john might be involved in preparing a video workshop

announcements about process & practicalities – AP nab

video training:

13th AM woodhouse – jess has circulated details

next meeting:

5th Dec 2010 – protag was sorting hebden – no confirmation – fallback 1in12?


Regarding the logging of ip issue, I would like to say as part of a discussion around this on the legal list that the position of NIMC is that what we want is
(a) a ban on all further looking at IP addresses, but that we are open to considering a transparent and accountable system that includes peer oversight
(b) this is an issue that concerns the entire UK set of collectives because, frankly, individual users are not going to be that interested in the differences between mir and hyperactive.


What this does not address is existing filtering – is that to end as well? Thoughts.

I’m not happy with the way the discussion is summarised as “caused by the malfeasances of mir admins”. That is not my feeling of what was expressed during the discussion as to my recollection the concern about the damage to the brand was regarding the wider issue that IP addresses can be viewed at points in the cycle and that this has been used to set up filters. I accept that others might think that is malfeasance but I still do not think it was representative of what was said in the meeting and thus I feel uncomfortable with it.

Stuff on Radical Routes background to the process proposal has now gone out on uk-imc-discuss with request for active consensus and Infiltrator Expose guidelines now up on crabgrass as well.


Aarg – just seen the letter at we.riseup.net/imc-northern+collective/l... – I’m presuming this was sent? Aarrgh again.



The letter went to a closed list (legal or maybe contact) back in March.

I thought malfeasance was a saucy bit of terminology, but then I wasn’t at the recent meeting…



The letter above was sent to the legal list on March 17th.


Responses were these:

on 18th March ChrisC said “I have some concerns about the way the disclosure of information from these private lists has been handled by Jimdog:”

(Jimdog isn’t on the legal list, didn’t send the email and didn’t disclose anything)

On 23rd April Notts send a long response (notably, there was no subsequent complaint that BTM or anyone else had caused concerns by indulging in “disclosure of information…”)

On 25th April MikeD posted a summary of his notes from the Bristol Network meeting.


That seemed to be the end of the discussion prior to the Network meeting in London.


re. malfeasance:

At the meeting we discussed that the principles of unity announce that IMCs allow anonymous publishing, however the people who run indymedia.org.uk make records of info that identfies users. That is an abuse of trust by people who have been given trust; if there’s a better word than malfeasance I’d love to know what it is.


a better word for what purpose?

better suited to conveying our poor opinion of this practice? perhaps not.

better suited to obtaining a satisfactory outcome by maintaining constructive relations with our fellow IMCers? I think if we’re interested in addressing issues around our “brand” then we need to formulate our public utterances in a way that seeks to lessen intransigence rather than deepen it.

Captain wishy-washy signing off.