Record of first meeting 18-08-2013

Blagora frusen: kelsoo , Blagora , LordDVG , selk, estranho , Kolizer_RUS marcolandia , ruzarzh , Scall may the meeting begin
LordDVG hello to everyone
Blagora Hi LordDVG and fellow dragorians
frusen selk: done eating already?
frusen is there a topic for this meeting? something special we will discuss?
frusen let us await selk for a few minutes
Blagora I guess we need to decide on what we want to talk about and where to post the logs for house hat miss the meeting. I suggested we post the logs on the pad. Then put a copy on the wiki for recods
Blagora Ok
Kolizer_RUS meeting will be in five minutes?
frusen Kolizer_RUS: 5-10 minutes i hope
frusen Blagora: that would work
Blagora “for those that miss the meeting”*
Blagora That way we can add whats been done on the pad either on your own or as a group
Blagora but the original record stays on the wiki
Blagora I think my T key is sticky hence weird spelling
Blagora Did anyone try doprwars yet?
Blagora dopewars*
frusen nope
Blagora It has a server mode. We could for a gang and take on trisquel
|Blagora|
frusen haha
frusen i’d rather take on ubuntu
frusen that’d be real war
Blagora It maybe a good way to foster join efforts
frusen what do you mean?
Blagora Lol yes take on Ubuntu , Apple M$ the world
Blagora a weekly libre games night
frusen dopewars irl
Blagora Nope I have enough hassle with beer I don’t need more with dope
frusen i think the community will grow with at least 100% when D3 is released
Blagora Yes me too
Blagora You know I’m not at all techie. But I do have lot’s of experience at community projects
frusen Blagora: why do you have kelsoo idling? why two accounts?
frusen a good distribution needs more the techies
Blagora My debian box has kelsoo my email etc
Blagora tue
Blagora true*
frusen do you just have it idle to see logs?
Blagora some times
Blagora But It ttents to run 24/7
Blagora tends*
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frusen i use an IRC bouncer and then just connect to it with different clients
Blagora The dragora is basically a desktop in the office so I can’t be sure I have access to it
Blagora irc bouncer whats that
frusen its a service i have running on gungre.ch, so when i want to chat i connect to my server
Blagora Just reading up. It sound like gnu screen
frusen i use this one wiki.znc.in/ZNC
Blagora I notice a few packages are going to Apache from gpl ZNC being one
Blagora IBM didn’t want a copyleft code so passed openoffice to apache
Blagora Some dev are using lgpl not just for librarys
frusen yeah
Blagora That’s one of the things I really like about Dragora " The “preferred licenses” are those compatibles with free software valueswww.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#...s|
Blagora It’s one of the things that puts me off midori
frusen what license has midori?
Blagora Maybe We need a list of software that’s copyleft where there is a choice
Blagora lgpl
Blagora www.midori-browser.org/faqs
frusen try directory.fsf.org
Blagora Wow that’s nice
Blagora I usually search www.debian.org/distrib/packages#search_... then look at the copyright
Blagora Did you try gogglesmm
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frusen gogglesmm?
Blagora A music player gpl3 I uploaded it to you sever
Blagora server*
frusen you only upload 32 bit i have 64 bit on my main dragora
frusen where is selk
Blagora Nice an light and support librefm
Blagora No idea
frusen thats good
Blagora It’s not obvious but where it say lastfm you can change the config
Blagora says*
selk I’m back, what’s up
Blagora First Dragora meeting
selk cool
Blagora Have you tried gogglesmm
selk no, what’s it?
Blagora Music player light gplv3. Supports libefm
Blagora librefm*
selk oh
selk a music player and video player is important
selk more people prefer mplayer instead of xine
Blagora Yes. I’m getting used to xine but usually use mplayer
selk there’s a fork of mplayer called mplayer2, because the authors don’t want fix the bugs
Blagora mplayer2
|Blagora|
selk unfortunately, mplayer2 supports the codecs from M$ Winsucks
selk please tell us more about gogglesmm
Blagora code.google.com/p/gogglesmm
Blagora The dev is very helpfull
Blagora He rebuilt it to support powerpc for me
Blagora And all other powerpc users
Blagora but I filed the bug
Blagora I have 32bit version on frusens server
Blagora gungre.ch:3000/projects/blagora-s-packa...
Blagora selk. The debian version in main has no non-free in it
Blagora mplayer2 that is
frusen gogglesmm is interesting indeed
frusen selk: will support for dragora 2.2 drop when dragora 3 is released?
Blagora I think if free software can play patent encumbered codecs it’s fine.
selk good question
Blagora Of course we prefer to use free codecs for our own work
selk frusen, well.. D3 supposes a better scheme (technically) in the world of gnu/linux distributions,
selk and this is important to differentiate ourselves from the rest, technically and ethically
selk However, these updates and the people involved in the project, people who are becoming interested .. encourage me to continue
selk the problem is the time and still the money. but maybe we can have the two versions (editions)
frusen how do you mean two versions?
Blagora Maybe security updates for a set time
frusen i think it would be best if we put all out energy into D3
frusen when it’s out
Blagora Me too
selk the first (D2) based on glibc with the well-known popular and widely used free software
selk yes, is another viable way
selk that’s way I was asking the dragbuilder (the gui) for toque
selk that’s why
Blagora Your not trying to update D2. My understanding is D3 is a whole new ball game
frusen if we want to attract more people to the community i think it’s best to have one supported system
frusen and all focus on it
Blagora Yes
selk yeah, why not
Blagora It’s not like gnome2 > gnome3 Bloat and a new UI. it’s about making the system better
selk exactly
frusen now, i have a question about the new package system. is dependency checking and network updates planned? or how far have you thought?
selk the excellence should be the marketing
selk yes..
selk I like the idea of dependency checking from the source(s)
selk the program should be check if the package is already installed
Kolizer_RUS frusen: how are you?
selk if not, it builds the required recipe to cover the dependency
selk (some thoughts)
frusen but let’s say a user wants to install package A which depends on package B and C, would A also get and install B and C? i think one reason for D2 not being a big “success” is because of all the manual work.
selk yes
frusen alright
selk the information about from where the source is downloaded should be there, in the recipe or in a separate file
selk there’s a good idea to avoid effort..
selk the effort of copy & paste the checksum of the source
selk to put in the recipe
selk for example, I get source X
frusen like parabola does?
Blagora Hi Kolizer_RUS. for your information (fyi) The logs from this meeting will be posted on the pad at the end
selk and I put the sha1sum to grab in the recipe
selk parabola and other distributions, systems (Haiku)
selk this can be avoided if we introduce a CRC64 to check the tarball, automatically
selk Antonio can do that
frusen but lets say package A depends on package B and C where C depends on package D? instead of downloading packages it must download recepies?
frusen well, this is maybe getting a bit technical?
frusen but i think it’s a good idea to advance and get these two features: dependency/checksum checking and network support
Blagora Good. if it’s needed to be said and talked about it’s needed
selk right..
selk I think the key of the “depency checking” is in the sources, recipes
selk remembering that in D3 we are trying to be “statically-linked”
Kolizer_RUS The meeting started?
Blagora Kolizer_RUS: is now
selk packages have no external dependencies at runtime
Kolizer_RUS aa)
selk so the key would be in the sources, recipes
selk and I think that’s the key, the sources..
selk as you can see
frusen a good thing with network support is that you don’t need to annouce the system upgrades in the same way as before. of course you can just rsync once in a while to look for new packages and clone the git repo. but i don’t think most people would do that
frusen selk: yeah, i think that’s the way to go about it
selk popular package systems like apt/dpkg, rpm, etc.
Blagora I’d like to do a pkd update and it update
selk are based on “dynamically-linked”
selk they need to solve the dependencies in the build-time, and in the run-time.
selk *they need to resolve
Kolizer_RUS Needed more packages
selk for the network aspects, I need more feedback
selk about how we can to do..
selk to have multiples repositories
Blagora Kolizer_RUS: The new Dragora 3 will have an easier way to build packages
selk for example, in Debian and other distros
selk there’s a file which contains the list of repositories
Kolizer_RUS good!;)
frusen a sources.list file
selk from where gets the sources, and packages.
selk yeah!, sources.list
frusen i think parabola’s is called mirrorlist
frusen but basically it’s the same idea
selk but I don’t know how to handle this file
selk sure
selk Gentoo is a good example
frusen say you had a line like this:
selk because they have the “ebuilds”
selk a collection of recipes.
frusen http://mirror.fsf.org/dragora/dragora-2.2/ main plus testing
selk and they are distributing a tarball containing the “snapshots” of the recipes
frusen it would use that mirror and look for recipes in the folders main, plus, testing
selk interesting
frusen so, for example if you don’t want packages from plus you can remove it
selk this can be handled with wget or curl, right?
frusen and below that line you could have: gungre.ch/dragora browsers editors
frusen and i could have my own “cookbooks” of recipes
frusen browsers and editors
selk oh oh
selk you’re creating categories..
frusen so if someone want and odd browser, like netsurf you can subscribe to it
frusen or some editor like zile, texmacs
Blagora If you use categories make sure they follow the free desktop ones
frusen yeah
selk we need these categories
frusen cookbooks of recepies
selk what do you mean by “cookbooks”?, the tarball?
frusen recepies exists in cookbooks
frusen a cookbook would just be a category
selk directory: cookbooks – subdirectory: ?
frusen editor would be a “cookbook” or “category”
selk ah, nice!
selk is the same
selk what you think about emacs vs. zile as the alternative?
frusen zile is much more lightweight
selk *what do you
frusen if you just do text editing zile is fine
frusen if you want email/calculator/games etc you need the full thing
frusen i think emacs should be in another category
frusen not installed by default
selk do you like the idea to have a “basic” system, from where you can build your own customized system, downloading the recipes, etc.?
frusen nano, zile, vim and moe are nice and small
frusen yeah, having a small and fast installation
selk Blagora> If you use categories make sure they follow the free desktop ones <- do you have the url for reference?
Blagora I agree small and basic. With easy default. For me that would bee a basic CONFIGURED openbox , tint, Filemanager IF xfce was not used.
frusen but not as basic as parabola, it should come with X and some WM/DE installed
selk of course!
frusen i like the idea of wmconfig
selk I need to port some tools of D2 to D3
selk the tools of D2 are Bash-specific.
Blagora wmconfig is great but the default needs to be already setup or noobes will run a mile
Blagora noobies
selk and I want “shell-agnostic”
selk a tool that can work with any POSIX compatible shell.
frusen ah, good
frusen ive only used bash but many people prefer zsh and fancy things like that
selk true
Blagora yes I do have a reference “somewhere” will find it now
frusen talking about D3 makes me very excited
Kolizer_RUS Diablo 3&
Kolizer_RUS ?
frusen dragora 3
Kolizer_RUS hahah)
Blagora www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications
Kolizer_RUS Русские идут!
Blagora There is so much to talk about. But we need to sort out action point where people can take on tasks. Obviously this depends on many things. skill, time, trust, etc. So i propose that as tasks are agreed so are actions
Kolizer_RUS oh sorry
Kolizer_RUS selk: you Spaniards
Blagora This means Dragorians need to be "categorized " by there skill, trust etc. I would not trust my packages to be bug free for example, so should not be able to upload OFFICIAL packages unless they can be checked in some way. So selk needs to decide who he wants to have as “trustees” to help him build Dragora. Non devs can still make useful contributions via several means. Design, Publicity,…
Blagora …social networking, docs, site and wiki etc
selk Blagora, sounds good
selk I suggestion to take a look in the manual of `toque’, if any want to help with the recipes, build
selk and of course, we need the categories
selk I suggest
Blagora For the record. I propose we have rolling meetings every eight days starting at 18.00 gmt. This way we have a fair time span and everyone have days they can make it and days they can’t
frusen i think it’s better that we decide during the week instead of having an exact date.
selk better
Blagora I’m not sure. If we decide during the week it will mean we settle for a time scale that suit the current user base. At the exclusion of new users from time zone out with ours
Blagora It will be a do do-ocracy but whether fair I’m not so sure?
frusen my weekends will be very messy
selk the important points can be pointed on the wiki
frusen we can discuss whenever we feel like it on irc
Blagora I’m not proposing every weekend
frusen and maybe in a few weeks we can have a “real” meeting
Blagora I’m proposing every eight days
frusen i miss herco and kaltorak
Blagora Yes me to
Blagora But better to have a meeting to get things rolling than nothing.
marcolandia dragones \o/.
Kolizer_RUS hey marcolandia
frusen alright guys i need to head to bed
frusen catch you all later
Kolizer_RUS bye frusen
Blagora Ok. I have to keep gf happy soonI’ll copy the log to the pad after midnight if that sound ok?
Blagora Saturday is the only day herco can’t make it. The next meeting is set for next Sunday 18.00 gmt. Any comment?
Blagora “kaltorak saturday 17:00 – 20:00” Must have forgot
Blagora afk be back later
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selk o/ marcolandia
selk o/ kaltorak
marcolandia selk, \o/*.
marcolandia ¿Cómo va?
selk aquí estamos..
selk bien y vos?