How about allowing non members to view, but not write on, pages?

This already exists – check the public box in the right hand side of the page.

^ Yeah. That said, the option to let non-members post comments would be great. By non-members, I’m also referring to folks that haven’t even signed up for we.riseup yet. Blog-style.

yeah, the version of crabgrass that we.riseup.net is running is ridiculously bad at handling users who are not logged in. this summer, when we upgrade, things should get a lot better in this regard.

re: “This already exists – check the public box in the right hand side of the page.”

…right, as I’ve just done for this page?…I sort of meant make the whole site visible to anyone casually surfing the web and linking into the riseup site – without them having to join up! Also allow non members to use a site wide search engine…so that once they get here, they can search for stuff.

..I mean its very simple for anyone to join we.riseup.net anyway – so why not make the whole we.riseup.net website visible anyway as default, and perhaps allow people the option to hide pages from non members public view, and also the option to hide group material/personal material/individual pages from non riseup member viewers…and also from members in general view perhaps unless they are members of the specific group…if someones feeling very private, like.

Alternatively, at least allow the option to allow non member viewing of an entire group/personal collection of pages…so that I can give the url of this group out around the web:

we.riseup.net/permacultureforestgardening

…people can join if it takes off, and people can get on with it…but I think that the default site-wide setting should be ‘open to all’.

By the way, I made most of the pages ‘my’ pages so that someone can’t swan in an arbitarily delete peoples hard work – is this method going to be effective please?

so why not make the whole we.riseup.net website visible anyway as default

Because many of the people that riseup offer services to have good reasons to remain private. They might be acting against state or corporate domination and/or intrusion. By using riseup, people know that their data will be held securely, unlike almost every mainstream provider. And they know that they, not some corporate who will always be in the government’s pocket, are in control of who has both control and access to that data.

Making the default to be ‘share my data with everybody’ adds to the view that anybody that wants to keep data private has something to hide, and is therefore under suspicion. Even if you don’t consider any of your data private, and would be happy for anybody to see it, the very fact that you make it private helps others (e.g. VJ activists in Burma) keep their data private.

R! I know that was the thinking..I think its not a matter of ‘sharing data’ with everyone in a negative sense. We want people to know alternatives to mainstream babylon vampire system society..thus ideally we want people to view the stuff here. The point is that people can do that anyway by laboriously joining the network, and then the individual group. Thus there is no cloak here in reality to illegal activities or whatever being seen by anyone whatsoever…and I suggest that the benefits of allowing open viewing of what we are up to is positive! I want to protelise this material/ideas:

we.riseup.net/permacultureforestgardening

…plus whatever else is happening. Again, if the cops etc want to see whats happening in any individual groups they can do so…but by stopping open viewing of site material we cut of out nose to spite our face…because this is or should not be some sort of ghetto that is never shared and observed and the network joined by non clique.

..thus so basically to accomodate what is essentially paranoia, ‘we’ have a search engine system that is severely curtailed, and an arrangement of hidden pages that no one can view unless they know the exact URL.

THATS REALLY ANNOYING

no, it works exactly as you want it to work: everything can be made public, and the search can find anything that is public. the default is private, which is a fine default. as I said before, the only problem currently is that we.riseup.net is using an older version of crabgrass that has problems when a user is not logged it. among them, the search doesn’t work. but these are just bugs that have been fixed.

Sounds good, elijah.

+1 to elijah

Greenearth – I don’t think it is just paranoia (refer to my Burma example above – activists in Burma are not paranoid – the state really is out to get them). I know many people that have been arrested, and several charged, with conspiracy charges for minor (and definitely non-violent) offences (but not so minor if you face big bucks fines and/or jail). Some activism works best in full public view, other activism has to be kept hidden to avoid it being disrupted by the authorities and participants facing persecution. There are thousands of Internet providers for activism that can be open, but very few for activism that needs to be hidden. As a non-techie, I’m very grateful that riseup exists for the latter so that I’m assured that what I need to keep private will be kept private.

I dont think that there are that many servers for non commerical work that are free to user.

Its paranoia because if you/me can locate a group/forum…then so can the old bill…and by ‘hiding’ the pages, it just stops the general public that arn’t members, from casually viewing..and thus learning.

I.e. nothing in reality is being hidden from the cops, but the work we are doing is being hidden from joe public (unless explicitaly made ‘public’) – thats the annoy factor.

Thats the actual reality.

Bles

@greenearth

I still maintain it’s not paranoia. First, paranoia is an irrational fear / one bought on by physiological stress that somebody is watching you or out to get you when they aren’t. I think that many of the state services and/or corporations are out to get activists who challenge their domination.

Second, just because you/me can locate a group, I don’t see why having a page within that group private means that you/me can access that page. We can only do so if we’re members of the group – and groups can limit their membership. All that you/me will know (assuming that we not members on Crabgrass) is that the group exists. This is not 100% security, but it’s higher than a group making all of it’s details available to anybody.

Third, the way Crabgrass works means that a group can be set up in such a way that you/me cannot know that group exists, useless we are explicitly invited to join it. Searching for it without being logged on as a member will simply return a page not found which is indistinguishable from an incorrect URL.

Whilst I would encourage all activists to use rise up or other activist providers, a search in your favourite search engine for ‘free web space’ will find a large number of organisations that will host non-commercial sites for free.

quote:

“and groups can limit their membership. All that you/me will know (assuming that we not members on Crabgrass) is that the group exists.”

…they can limit their membership, sure, but they know nothing about members other than a few bits of anonomous data, unless its by personal invite, from ‘real world’ contacts for example. yes I suppose you’ve got me there! (that could be limiting and cliquey)

quote:

“Third, the way Crabgrass works means that a group can be set up in such a way that you/me cannot know that group exists, useless we are explicitly invited to join it. Searching for it without being logged on as a member will simply return a page not found which is indistinguishable from an incorrect URL”

…only because theres a hobbled site search engine – which is limiting in many ways I suggest in terms of people finding groups they like and people they want to connect with…as in a sort of activist aspect networking space. The point is I cant actually locate anyone or anything else I might be interested in here because the site search engine is set up to be obscure in order to cloak climate change activist networks and the like. Actually thinking about it those (climate change groups) sorts of groups tend to be quite free and unparanoic and so would allow anyone usually to join via the anonimity of the computor keyboard. I can see how the obscureness of the set up could help democracy activists in Burma..or Tibet for example…but also Al Qa’ida and ALF type headcases.

next.

quote:

“Whilst I would encourage all activists to use rise up or other activist providers, a search in your favourite search engine for ‘free web space’ will find a large number of organisations that will host non-commercial sites for free.”

It might be me, but I tried this and only came up with samey servers offering free space at the cost of ads that are out or users control even. I am aware of the option to buy space,(say Greennet) and thus control any possible ads…which might well be reasonable in many regular contexts…but I wanted the knoledge I’d accumulated to go into a non commericial context…thus here. Please anyone give actually URL’s of non commercial space for webpages and the like that dont have ads. Cheers.

Currently in Manali India by the way having hiked alone for one month in Himalaya, Spiti and Lahaul. I saw from a distance the storm that headed over to Leh and resulted in 100’s of deaths. These sorts of rains were unheard of previously. I have seen high altitude desert with ultra high UV levels. Totally manic. The climate is changing…fast…and it is ‘babylon’ ritual abuse system that is firing this ‘armagedeon’. The ultimate solution is positive magic….rather than ritual abuse. Direct action can of course be part of that process, but its important to keep in mind the root, source, crux, of the issue. I would say by the way that many things are ‘direct action’, not just the ‘front line’ type activities. Permaculture is DEFINITLY a positive solution to many problematic issues in current society…especially in the context of thinking about and making free sharing networks. I have been rich. There is only so much alcohol, drugs, and consumer crap you can swallow…it becames a horrible chore. Its about about food, cloth and shelter…and sharing and love. Last week I hiked with full sack over a 5000 metre col. Here local people see the mountains as sacred sites…unlike the ritual abuse negation to this ultimate reality in the western reality. I did a charras ritual. Boy I was high. I fasted for 5 days. Now back in Manali..full English breakfast, a bed without fleas or bedbugs. I keep thinking of that storm. Leh will never be the same again. everyone is upset…its global warming climate change…Again the ultimate solution is awareness and (positive) magic, believe it or not my materialistic friends.

All the best,

Bles

I just found riseup (never heard of it before and been active on the web sine 1994) after I saw a link to greenearth’s food forest picture page at the Yahoo organics group.

I could NOT view the pictures until I signed up. Then the slideshow wasn’t working, but I could see the pics. Before I signed up, the page said there were no pictures.

I really hate to have to join Yahoo groups with those obnoxious ads and the lack of privacy, BUT, if you want to make a difference and create changes, you need people to at least be able to view some pics WITHOUT spending an hour reading about who you are and what you’re doing.

Seems like a good thing and I hope this discussion is from 2010 (no year with the dates).

Also, I was able to uncheck that “public” button on the page — maybe a configuration error by greenearth?

I’d love to see a wiki about organics and permaculture, but it should be PUBLIC. There’s no point to SECRETLY spread the word.

Christine